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Oct. 6th, 2004

Last night we stumbled across the vice presidential debates. I don't know how much of it we actually saw, but we watched through to the end.
Ya know, I'm really not impressed by Edwards. Cheney, who is the center of all evil on the planet and possibly the world and who I despise, actually somehow came across as more likeable and affable than Edwards. He's still an evil old fuck, but his dodging wasn't as apparent as Edwards. He was much better at rebutting points, and he was, on the face of things, plain spoken.
I know that half the shit he said was utter bullshit, but it SOUNDED good... which is what this is all about.
Edwards sounded like a politician. He sounded like someone who, even if they weren't actually, was just lying through their teeth. He sounded like the tyipcal car salesman. He was too polished without actually being polished.... slick I think is the word I want.

He did a lot of stumbling, he seemed flustered here and there.. he gets points for making the point of getting Cheney's attention and looking him in the eye to make some of the accusatory points, but he still came off as showboating. I liked that he repeatedly brought up Halliburton, but he didn't do it effectively. I liked that he took the "flip flop" Issue and reversed it for all the ways that bush and cheney have done the same things... but I don't like that he didn't then come back and say "see, we ALL do that. It's called learning more about a situation and voting accordingly" instead of just pointing fingers.
I am also fucking annoyed that Kerry and Edwards have still not said "I voted against the body armor because..." or "I voted for the use of force, but said it was the wrong war because..." and hammered that point.
They keep using the "voted for the war, then said wrong war wrong time wrong place" against Kerry. He voted for the president to have the authority to use force. That's it. That's all that vote was. Yes, I give the president the authority to use force. That means that he can go to this other country and say "I have the authority to use force. Listen to us or we'll attack" ... that's the ENTIRE POINT of voting for the authority of the president to use force. It's a bargaining chip.
It's still the wrong war, wrong place, wrong time though and that's why those two statements can exist next to each other without contradiction.


I hate to say it, but Cheney pretty easily won that one.

I do have to say though that the moderators questions were GREAT and I wish they'd asked those EXACT questions of Bush and Kerry.
"what's wrong with a little flip flop?" was my favorite thing to see on the screen all night floating right below Cheney.

Comments

( 5 comments — Leave a comment )
punkalicia
Oct. 6th, 2004 08:33 am (UTC)
i consider that edwards didn't collapse under the weight of darth cheney's glare to be a great victory.

and the reason he was good at rebutting, is he would rebut with total LIES. like that he never meet edwards, or that he never said there was a connection between 9/11 and iraq.

i thought it was a tie, personally. there were definetly things that edwards could and should have done, but i'm just glad that cheney didn't go for the heart attack on stage sympathy. he looked tired and cranky, much like me when i haven't properly napped.
maddening
Oct. 6th, 2004 09:27 am (UTC)
I really wanted Edwards to not come off as a politician. I think that Kerry has honestly come off so freakin well that I had inflated expectations for Edwards (despite knowing that I couldn't stand him when he was running for the nomination).

I know that everything that dribbled out of Cheney's mouth was an incredible lie... but the thing is... Edwards didn't effectively answer those lies. He didn't just say "no, you're lying" like Kerry did to Bush. He sort of stammered out a lengthy response to most things and.. ya know... I think I just wanted him to be more suscinct.

We were both happy though to see that he didn't seem scared of the big bad mean old man...w hich honestly... I know I couldn't have done. He didn't look intimidated in any way.

I think the only thing I don't like at this point about Kerry/ Edwards is their silly ass tapdancing around the gay marriage thing, which I think lost major points for them in my head last night becuase Edwards was visibly uncomfortable talking about it and didn't present their point well at all.

frobisher
Oct. 6th, 2004 03:33 pm (UTC)
I feel it was tie-ish too. My take? Edwards definitely lost some points on presentation, but it's balanced by the fact that there were times when Cheney just sat there and said that he had no answer - on some points of substance, mind you, not simple insults. I particularly liked Edwards' comments about Cheney's congressional record, as I'm tired of hearing that stuff from only one side.

Also, the fact that they decided not to attack on the lesbian daughter issue is a plus.

Nevertheless, it was a debate. I missed SVU for THIS???
maddening
Oct. 7th, 2004 06:17 am (UTC)
Honestly, it's bad enough that they're already anti-gay marriage, and don't believe that marriage is valid outside of a union between a man and a woman. They could not afford to also present an unkind face toward Cheney's daughter.

Me being me... I thought it was kind of condescending they way Edwards applauded Cheney's "bravery" and "willingness to talk about" their daughter. I mean... I understand what he was saying and I know he didn't mean that Cheney was brave just for having and not disowning a lesbian daughter, but I still think that it very well could have been taken poorly.

I like the comments about Cheney's congressional record, but I was hoping he'd also attack Cheney's *attendance* record, becuase it's honestly just as poor as Edwards'.

I think my expectations were set too high after the Kerry / Bush debate. I was actually expecting someone who was capable of being just as well spoken, thoughtful, and composed as Kerry. I really want the "no, you are wrong. Period." demeanor to be part of them both, but well... I know that that's not how it goes with presidents and vice presidents.

I think the problem overall for me was that somehow... during the course of the debate Cheney, a man I can't stand, actually seemed not so bad to me. He's just the effective of a liar that even though I KNEW the things he was saying were out and out lies... I kind of WANTED to believe them.

listening too much with the touchy feely portion of the brain, I think. Or maybe it's just squishy

luvrhino
Oct. 6th, 2004 08:52 am (UTC)
stolen from effy via devronika
( 5 comments — Leave a comment )

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