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A confession

I really never enjoyed the movie Dune and my attempt at reading the book got me about 60 pages in and desperately looking around for *any* decent excuse not to read anymore.
That was a couple years ago. I found the book the other day and the bookmark is still there. But I know that at this point I'd have to start over if I wanted to give it another shot. That prospect is just... almost frightening.

It's vile.
::nods::

Comments

( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
chroniccolonic
Apr. 7th, 2002 11:51 am (UTC)
The more I read your journal, the more I realize that your tastes suuuuuck. I mean, you don't like Dune? DUNE IS AWESOME (well, not the movies)! You don't like Sevendust? SEVENDUST IS AWESOME! You don't like ethnic cleansing? ETHNIC CLEANSING IS AWESOME!

And why won't you post on TRG.org? What, you think you're better than us? Well, you probably are, but STILL. Uh, I forgot my point.
maddening
Apr. 7th, 2002 11:57 am (UTC)
I don't like DUNE.
Sevendust is a mall metal bullshit rip off artist pseduo-cock rock, wanna be hard, easily emulated watered down pablum for the top 40/mtv crowd pile of shit band that you'll scoff at having liked in another 3 years.

I don't post to TRG because that was something I did 4 years ago.
I wasn't even FUN or FUNNY for the last year and I can't imagine that it will have suddenly become hilarious just because it sat untouched for so long.

I've read through it a few time.
Jay's posts made me laugh... well.. a few of them... but everything else is just sort of.. same ol same ol.
::shrug::
It's not about being better. Just about not wanting to live in some.. online time warp where I get to pretend I'm 20 again and make poop jokes and talk about coffee too much.
greyyguy
Apr. 7th, 2002 12:13 pm (UTC)
Dune is good
But it is very slow to get started. I did the same thing with it, but I stuck through it.

Interview with a Vampire was the same way with me. It kept putting me to sleep. And the same with Battlefield Earth.

Just different tastes for different people. And that is ok.

So what books do you like?
maddening
Apr. 7th, 2002 01:14 pm (UTC)
Re: Dune is good
Considering I read anywhere from 2-5 books a week depending on size, it would be easier to ask what I *don't* like.
Interview was difficult because Rice's style. She has a very romantic era style (or wants to) and tries desperately to describe to you *everything* in the scene when the truth is, you'll never understand new orleans until you've been to new orleans.

hehe.. you actually read an L.Ron Hubbard book?
I didn't read the book or see the movie. Sci-Fi gallactic battles are very far from my interest area.

David Foster Wallace, Tim Robbins, David Sedaris, Amy Vowell, Irvine Welsh, Chuck Palanhiuk, William Gibson, Harlan Ellison, Terry Pratchett, Greg Egan (if it's going to be sci-fi it has to be good, hard sci-fi or it has to be something that is just too utterly fucking cool to my mindset to not love).. the list goes on and on and on...
I literally cannot name a favorite author, book, or genre.
I really don't read any fantasy (aside from Pratchett, but he almost doesn't count) becuase I've never found one that actually intrigues me. They all seem rather formulaic and tried. Especially when they tend to be in huge sprawling series like they are.
I kind of put fantasy into the same category as romance, "things other people devour and adore"

I used to try to torture myself with reading books I despised because I thought I should read them.
Ulysees... Finnegan's Wake... Moll Flanders...Kidnapped....
I've stopped.
So If I read through the first chunk of a book and there is still NOTHING in the wording, the story, the characters... *anything* that grabs me at all... it's a lost cause.

I once read a micheal chrichton book because the person I was dating at the time asked me to. The only thing that saved me there was his preschool phrasings and some liberal skimming.

hmmm.. I should have said "don't get me started on books...."
mjfgates
Apr. 7th, 2002 02:44 pm (UTC)
Re: Dune is good
L. Ron... lord, he was a bad writer. Bad bad bad bad bad. I mean, nearly *all* thirties sci-fi was bad, but he wasn't even good for the time.

And that particular book may have been .. oh, wait, he didn't write it, it was ghost-written by Robert Vaughn Young. How *he* managed to type it up, I don't know... maybe using his elbows, since one hand had to be holding his nose and the other had to be covering his eyes. It's one case where the movie wasn't worse than the book.
frobisher
Apr. 7th, 2002 12:34 pm (UTC)
I hear that the director's cut of Lynch's version is much better than the originally released version. I have also heard that the recent Sci-Fi Channel version is pretty good.

No first hand experience though. Just FYI.
maddening
Apr. 7th, 2002 01:15 pm (UTC)
I don't know why so many people want so desperately for *everyone* to love that book.

I think Filth was an excellent book.. but I will be the first to admit that it's not for everyone.

akadashi
Apr. 7th, 2002 11:10 pm (UTC)
"I think Filth was an excellent book.. but I will be the first to admit that it's not for everyone"

Hahahahahahahahahaahahah... that's one way to put it. Another way is something that happened to a friend of mine (an ex named "Holly", interestingly enough). She loaned Filth to a friend, and the friend read most of it and threw it away. Not gave it back, but literally threw it in a dumpster.

Ah well. Say, you mentioned Amy Vowell - I don't know her, but that isn't saying much. I don't suppose you mean Sarah Vowell, do you (at the risk of sounding ignorant)? I have Radio On and Take the Cannoli, and love them both, but her new one isn't due out until the fall from what I've heard. Argh.

maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 10:59 am (UTC)
Dammit dude.
Yes. that's who I meant.
I have Take the Cannoli but not the other one.

The cunt THREW AWAY the book?

Someone throws away a book of mine and I'm going to cause paper cuts on their colon when I shove one of their books up their ass.

frobisher
Apr. 7th, 2002 11:31 pm (UTC)
Oh, come on. You know why.

EVERYONE MUST BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. OR ELSE.

"Yes, we are all individuals!!"
"I'm not"
[sounds of dissenter being beaten]
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:00 am (UTC)
well, yeah .. but ... I dunno.
I would think that I would be thoroughly labelled a lost cause at this point.
akadashi
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:04 am (UTC)
You know how you can tell someone is an Individual these days? Because they look EXACTLY LIKE all the other Individuals. Which is why I was stunned and elated to hear Ozzy Osbourne say the following on tv this weekend:

"You want my advice on tattoos? Don't get one, 'cos everyone and his brother has one these days."

Gotta love that man.
mobiusstrip
Apr. 7th, 2002 11:06 pm (UTC)
hello, just bored at work and thought i'd say something.

Dune is a great book, it has philosphy, ecology, action, politics wrapped up into a shakespeariar sandwich. But it is slow at the start and i remember constantly having to look up what muad-dib meant ect.
If you really can't stand the book, get the NEW dune movie (ie the one that was broadcasted on the sci-fi network). The movie is really good and stays really true to the book. The older dune movie left a lot of things out and i think it got confusing at times.
anyways, i read a lot too and i tried to read interview with a vampire and i thought it was VERY slow. I had to force myself to pay attention to the book. So it could be we just have totally seperate tastes (though i do love vampire books)
oh, and you also have pretty eyes
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 10:55 am (UTC)
I've seen bits and pieces of the new one too.
There is NOTHING there of interst.
Nothing.
Nada
Zip
I've had people telling me how much I would just love the damned story if I'd just give it a chance. I have. I don't... I don't understand why all the defensiveness about it (not necessarily from you, just in general)
::sigh::

I'll just stick to my Irvine Welsh.. cling desperately to the Irvine Welsh.


herm. And I shouldn't have replied to this because of the pretty eyes comment.
Guess I'll have to go back to using an icon that doesn't have my face in it.

mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:11 am (UTC)
Irvine Welsh...read trainspotting, the acid house, going to read 'glue'
he's a pretty good writer
Chuck Palahniuk is my favorite writer.
anyway, hell if you don't like dune then you just don't like it. The defensiveness about it could just come about because ITS SUCH A GOOD STORY. But to each his own. I triiiieeed, i mean TRIED to read 'moby dick' and couldn't do it. I just didn't like the style of writing and i couldn't enjoy the book.
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:21 am (UTC)
But you see, the defensiveness about it strikes me just as silly as all the people who've defended The Bridges of Madison County to me or hell, even certain Dean Koontz books.

There is such a thing as *different* stories and genres because people have different tastes.
If the story is THAT DIFFICULT to read, it can't be all that damned good. Simple logic leads me there. I'm not a moron, I don't read on a third grade level, I'm capable of grasping and processing incredible amounts of information and making all sorts of wild, intuitive connections (you know, just like everyone else here who isn't anencephalic) and I still really really don't like the damned book and I think it's *not* a good story.

As I said in this thread before, If I have to struggle through a book, it is rarely worth it.


mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:34 am (UTC)
i had to struggle through a lot of books...
THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV by Fyodor Mikhailovich is a perfect example...the book is bigger than the freaking bible! And it's sloooowww, it's a sllooooww dreary russian novel. But it was worth it. At the end, you learn to see why those slow parts helped build tension in the story. Just like the 'boring' parts of '2001: Space oddyssy' create a certain tention that makes the other 'non-boring' parts more enjoyable.
Just cus a book is difficult (or complex) to read, doesn't make it a bad book.
another good example is 'a clockwork orange'
ever tried to read this book? The guy freaking makes up his own words!

And really, the story isn't THAT difficult...it's just complex. It's a complex story of economics, ecology, philsophy, and politics. There are struggles left and right with differnt influnces everywhere. And Frank Herbert makes a whole world, you literally have to read some of the essays in the back to get a good feel of the world. If you don't like his sytle, that's cool....but saying a book is bad because it's difficult to read puts you in the category of the people who read 'the celestine prophecy' and take it seriously.
mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:36 am (UTC)
oh and sorry
that's
The Brothers Karamov by Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 12:23 pm (UTC)
I actually had no trouble at all with A Clockwork Orange. Anthony Burgess thought it was his worst book, but reading through some of his other works, it's certainly the best.
He made up his own words to fit with the futureland subculture, so it made perfect sense to me. I was baffled when I found out that later editions actually included a glossary. I thought it was pretty unecessary.
Lewis Carroll made up his own words too, and many of them have, from that origin point, ended up as part of our everyday lexicon. It's not as outlandish or strange a practice as you make it sound.

I didn't mean to imply that Dune was too difficult a story for me to get through or that books that are slow or hard to read are not worth the effort. If that were true, I never would have read The Illuminatis Trilogy or Infinite Jest.

Greg Egan writes some incredibly challenging books. Books where you have to grasp concepts of quantum mechanics in order to understand the progression of the story. Those are difficult to get through, but there is still *something* compelling in the story to make me want to try. For me, Dune is devoid of any interest. There is *nothing* there that gets my attention and makes me want to read more.

If in my opinion a book is badly written, then it's perfectly valid for me to say that I think the book is bad.
You implying that I don't enjoy the book because I can't grasp the deeper and wider sweeping grandure of the story puts you in the same category of people who read "Finnegan's Wake" and insist that anyone who doesn't see it as a deep and complex and moving tale is just a simpleton.

I never said that anyone who likes the book is anything one way or the other. I never even implied that they were anything one way or the other. I simply said that *I* do not enjoy the book and in an attempt to explicate my reasonings for the opinion, you've somehow come up with the idea that I'm saying it's challenging to read, and therefore it is bad. Which, really, was not my point at all.
If it's difficult to read, chances are that I'm not going to be all that entertained by it. And if there's nothing in the story to grab my attention, chances are that it will be put in my own personal pile of stories that I do not like.

mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 12:27 pm (UTC)
Re:
"If the story is THAT DIFFICULT to read, it can't be all that damned good. "


-maybe i took this took this the wrong way, but that's wwhat it sounded like.
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 12:38 pm (UTC)
Had I realized I was going to be defending my position on a book I didn't enjoy in the first place to this extent, I'm sure I would have worded it differently.
This *isn't* the debate community, you realize.

:::sigh:::
but I guess I'll have to treat it like it is for the people who skip on over to my journal from it.

To restate in a way that is more in line with my thinking on the topic :

"If the story is that damned difficult to read, it isn't going to be very enjoyable, and therefore I proably won't think it's all that good."

I read for enjoyment. Not so I can ramble off a litany of the impressive sounding books I've read.

mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 02:05 pm (UTC)
Ok, first off..You didn't read the book. You didn't even read 1/5 of the book.

"This *isn't* the debate community, you realize"

-oh yes, Im quite aware of this..but debating is a human activity that is not limited to a single forum on a journal web site. It happens when people disagree about things and try to come to terms about their disagreement by talking about it. You on the other hand seem to be getting quite mad when Im discussing things that you've said. If you didn't mean something, don't say it. Human communication is hard enough without you expecting me to read your mind. And I never said 'anyone who can't read DUNE is a total moron'. If you look at the start of this post, I said 'to each his own' and "if you don't like the book, then you just don't like it...it's not your kind of book". It was you that could not see how anyone could like the book.
hell, I don't care if you like the book, read the book, or even read 60 pages of the book. I was only trying to tell you that why some people are so defensive about the book is because they feel it's such a great story (something you never acknowledged to be even possible)
Like I said before, I tried to read 'moby dick' and I couldn't get past the first 100pages. Yet, I would never say the book is a piece of shit.

"I read for enjoyment. Not so I can ramble off a litany of the impressive sounding books I've read."
-lol, ok...i'm not going to even go there.
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 02:23 pm (UTC)
Ok, first off..You didn't read the book. You didn't even read 1/5 of the book.

Yep. I didn't read it because what I did read wasn't interesting enough to hold my attention.


"This *isn't* the debate community, you realize"

-oh yes, I�m quite aware of this..but debating is a human activity that is not limited to a single forum on a journal web site. It happens when people disagree about things and try to come to terms about their disagreement by talking about it.


okey dokey. I can dig that standpoint. I just usually wouldn't keep pounding on an issue in someone else's journal. ::shrug::
That's just me, though.


You on the other hand seem to be getting quite mad when I�m discussing things that you've said. If you didn't mean something, don't say it.

I'm not mad at all. I'm a little baffled as to why you keep coming back to debate this, but I'm not mad.
There is a difference between off hand commentary and clear explicit speech.
I threw out some off hand commentary, then came back and clarified with clear explicit speech when I realized that what I said didn't clearly define what I meant.

Human communication is hard enough without you expecting me to read your mind. And I never said 'anyone who can't read DUNE is a total moron'.

I don't expect you to read my mind. I don't expect you to read *anything*, especially this journal.
Your choice to pop on over and get involved in my personal journal here. I don't usually debate the things I put here. If I want to hash out my thought processes, there are forums for that and this is not one of those forums.

If you look at the start of this post, I said 'to each his own' and "if you don't like the book, then you just don't like it...it's not your kind of book".

And yet you keep coming back and talking about the book and its good points. If you really did have a 'to each his own' attitude, as you've said, then you would have just *dropped* it.


It was you that could not see how anyone could like the book.
hell, I don't care if you like the book, read the book, or even read 60 pages of the book. I was only trying to tell you that why some people are so defensive about the book is because they feel it's such a great story (something you never acknowledged to be even possible)


I never said, implied, stated, or even threw overtones at the idea that it's impossible that people like the book because they just like the book.
When just about everyone who has responded has been someone telling me that the book is a good thing, don't you think it would make sense that I continue to state my view point that I just don't understand?


Like I said before, I tried to read 'moby dick' and I couldn't get past the first 100pages. Yet, I would never say the book is a piece of shit.

And I never said Dune was a piece of shit, just that I didn't like it.


"I read for enjoyment. Not so I can ramble off a litany of the impressive sounding books I've read."
-lol, ok...i'm not going to even go there.


Good.

mobiusstrip
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:18 am (UTC)
oh and sorry about the 'eyes' comment if it pissed you off, i meant nothing other than a complement
wrekehavoc
Apr. 8th, 2002 06:18 am (UTC)
Re: Dune
i'm with you. Dune put me to sleep. and the movie? Sting-er-ino could not make me interested, even if he put a gun to my head. my beloved adores the book, but hey, i like him anyway ;-)
maddening
Apr. 8th, 2002 11:09 am (UTC)
Re: Dune
That is *so* noble of you.

I ... I'm kind of impressed really.
midn1te
Apr. 9th, 2002 08:20 pm (UTC)
Wow I just started reading Dune for the first time last weekend. I got to page 93! I'm 33 pages better than you so *nyah*
maddening
Apr. 9th, 2002 09:03 pm (UTC)
You also manage to read *fantasy* books, ferchrissakes..

You are obviously far more masochistic than I
::smirk:::
midn1te
Apr. 9th, 2002 09:09 pm (UTC)
Re:
lol mascochistic!? Why.. I re..semble that remark!
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