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Getting into geopolitical conversations with my redneck, never wrong, vietnam-vet father is never ever a good idea.
But I'm a masochist, apparently.
Basically, he thinks Sadamn Hussein needs to be 'taken out' but he doesn't really like the idea of a war.
And he's annoyed that we bomb the shit out of a country and then rebuild it, "killing ourselves to go prop up their economy while destroying ours"

I said that if we're going to play babysitter to the world, we need to have follow through; That we rebuild these countries because we don't want them hating us even more than they already did, moving onto another tyrannical, bellicose dictator of a leader, and because war is a means to an end, not an end in itself; That we don't kill ourselves economically through our helping the nations we destroy, we kill ourselves economically by becoming willing slaves to the corporate climate and the 'greed is good' mentality of the yuppified "if it feels good do it" mentality that's been the disease of his generation; That every major economic plan since my *birth* has been driving us toward destitution and our just desserts as a super power run amok;

And then I said that maybe, just maybe, the way to avoid rebuilding these countries is to avoid bombing them into oblivion in the first place.

Now he's grumbling at the tv, always right about the tv people's lives because he's so fucking clueless about reality.

I think something between the world weary (sleep deprived), flat delivery and the huge amount of stuff I dumped on him all at once he had to just turn it off and pretend I hadn't said anything.
If I'd really wanted to push *all* his buttons, I'd have thrown something in there about how the military is too large, how the defacto racism in this country is still a major factor in why there will never be a united america and maybe something about Vietnam being a pointless exercise in killing american soldiers.

Wait... I *said* something about vietnam being a pointless exercise in killing american soldiers.
Sleep dep-ish political rhetoric.
AAAAAHH... it's 1999 all over again.


Oct. 8th, 2002 06:45 am (UTC)
I could pick apart everything bit by bit like you did but I'm not in the debate community.

Now I'm going to do it again just to annoy you. I like taking things point by point. It's never been described as "picking things apart" by anyone but you and in another other situation than an argument with you.

But if you really think I believe "not saying anything" or a "wow, sorry about that" would have been either appropriate or what you wanted, then perhaps you think I'm a moron.

Hello? I *am* the one who said that you shutting up or just saying sorry would have gone a long way to my not being annoyed. *I* said that it was what *I* would have liked. I think my saying that it would have been nice to get a sorry or that you stopping talking would have been a good idea was a pretty clear indication that that was appropriate or what I wanted.

Jeeze, Dave, maybe you *are* a moron.

I didn't think a hollow apology would be appropriate nor needed.

No, a hollow apology wouldn't have been needed. An honest one would have been nice, though.

I assumed something like me feeling bad goes without saying, and that I instead was frantically trying to figure things out, including how to get you money if this in fact was an error on my part.

I don't expect you to pay me. I know you can't afford that. I was annoyed at an unexpected bill, Dave. That's it. Your feeling bad doesn't go without saying. After all, most of what you have to say about *anything* is you making a joke, wether the situation is "appropriate" for it or not.

Calling my step mom at work...you think that's not me caring?

Dave, honestly for all I know it's a daily occurance. I don't know about the minutae of your life. I don't know what's normal or not in your routines... ::shrug:: so no, you saying that you called your stepmother really didn't carry that much weight.

Maybe had I stated all of that you wouldn't think so low of me, that I'm some apathetic asshole being defensive. Maybe I wouldn't be hurt now wondering why I consider you a friend if this is really how you percieve me

If you'd just thrown in an apology... it's one of those golden rule things. If the situation were reversed, I would feel really fucking bad. And there wouldn't be any guesswork about how I felt.

...but hey, I'm the apathetic defensive asshole who "never shuts up", so odds are, I'm just playing the victim or something...

Dave, you tend to be apathetic, you tend to be an asshole, and your replies here came off as defensiveness. I don't think you're playing the victim. I just think you should have hushed it up, let it lie, just quit while you were ahead.

I really wish you didn't always think the worst of me, and take EVERYTHING in the most negative, worst way posible.

There's a reason for that.

I honestly don't think I'm the defensive one...

If you weren't before this post, you are now.

Has it ever occured to you that I'm just not in a great mood in GENERAL? That this is one more piece of shit annoyance (the bill, the argument) that I don't need right now?
Asking you to just... stop... was an honest request. I've gone from being annoyed at the bill to just being angry and wether or not that's a reasonable or unreasonable response. And now I'm getting angry that I'm actually ANGRY about such a stupid fucking thing.

This isn't worth my efforts, it shouldn't be worth yours either. I'll drop it. If you want to respond, defend yourself, what have ya, go head.
Oct. 8th, 2002 01:20 pm (UTC)
No, a hollow apology wouldn't have been needed. An honest one would have been nice, though.

For this? "Turns out that someone who said they had AT&T long distance was sorely mistaken. So my lil calling plan thing doesn't cover their calls. Sooooo I've got a bill I wasn't counting on. Thanks for double checking on that. yeah."
Gee, I fucking wonder why I didn't apologize sincerely or in a hollow way? Fuck you and your golden rule, it doesn't fucking apply to this. People tend to not apologize for things they didn't do and get "defensive" when they are accused of something they didn't do. But that doesn't mean shit in your court, after all you wrote that in a "bad mood" and such...not that it's an excuse or you being defensive- or even apologizing. Furthermore friends are supposed to come to each other on things like this, but I see the error of my ways which I will remedy. And like I said, it's obvious I felt bad otherwise I would have said sorry and left it at that. You think it's not easier to just say I'm sorry and not think about it anymore?

Dave, you tend to be apathetic, you tend to be an asshole, and your replies here came off as defensiveness. I don't think you're playing the victim. I just think you should have hushed it up, let it lie, just quit while you were ahead.

That was the straw, just so you know when you look back in a couple of days and your irrational bullshit wears off, and wonder what went wrong.

I've never been an apathetic asshole to my friends, people I care about, everyone but you seems to know that, so fuck it, I'm through with always wondering when you are gonna take something wrong and/or snap. I'm sick of the emotional minefield you are, how you act this way and blame it on others. Other people have feelings and a say, fuck you if you think every time YOU get mad or moody that the rest of us have to just shut up and wait for you to cool off before you can be dealt with rationally. I'm not your husband, child or whomever you actually think should act that way.

Furthermore, I've never done shit to you, even when we had that argument I tried explaining why you misinterpreted it, but I realize now how important feeling shitty from someone else is to your existence, how you need it for your planet sized chip on your shoulder. Fine. Allow me to be that again.

I'm not your fucking fan-boy, I thought I was a friend which gave me rights and feelings too, but I was mistaken. Your right about this not worth being angry about, but this also is dealing with you in a nutshell, and I don't want it anymore, I'm over it.

It's not that no one can handle or deal with you Holly, it's that you refuse to let them.

I'm taking your advice and letting things lie and quitting while I am ahead now...for once *I* will take the easy way out...


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