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I have too much estrogen (or whatever it is) for anyone's good.

I have this semi rant in my head that has fuck all to do with the above sentence about Eileen Wournos and serial killers in general and how first of all, most people don't understand that there's a murderer (someone who kills) and then there's a mass murderer (someone who kills a lot of people all at once) and then there's a spree killer (someone who kills a lot of people over the course of a sort of rampage, usually involving cross country travel and a lot of other crimes as well), and then WAAAAAY out away from all of them is a serial killer.

There's just too much to fit into a semi-sane entry. So I probably will never make that rant. Because in addition to people not understanding the difference between all of those things, I have even *more* issue with people who do, but then are fans. There's a difference between a big tongue in cheek membership in the Ed Gein fan club (Fun Fact: Ed Gein wasn't a serial killer by the FBI's standards of definition), and someone who is HONESTLY a *fan* of a serial killer.

You'll note that Dhamer lacks a huge following if you look around on the web. Bad jokes and 'good riddance' is all you'll see about him. About the same as Dennis Nielsen, his british counterpart. Dhamer wanted a live in love slave and so tried to lobotomize his victims, Nielsen just wanted someone to be a companion and so nicely killed and then kept his victims. Neither of them were 'out', both of them came from super masculine fathers who would have been horribly ashamed of their sexuality.
I have a theory that the reason the gay killers don't have as much of a fan following as the straight ones is that most of the serial killer fandom is actually pushed by *women* not men or boys.

It's hard to find someone to have an intelligent conversation about all this with. They're either fucking squicked by the whole thing (which I think is the more normal response), or they're a fan and think it's fucking cool that so and so did this or that. I used to think that this was becuase these people had never actually experience death. And in some cases I think that's part of it but then I think it has something to do a disconnect between real and 'it's only tv' that some people seem to have. and on and on and on.

and ya know what? This *wasn't* the rant. heh.


( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
Mar. 3rd, 2004 08:27 am (UTC)
ORRRRR they just like to gross people out, and find that this is a good way to do it. Ooh, look, *this* guy put his victims in barrels full of hydrochloric acid to dissolve the bodies and hide the evidence, isn't that neat? (Yeah, yeah, wince, baby, WINCE...)

heh. I'd say that reminds me of last night, but I don't need to be reminded.
Mar. 3rd, 2004 10:22 am (UTC)
well, I meant people who aren't just big fans of dead baby jokes...

Of course, I've known plenty of those too. I think those people account for the popularity of the Faces of Death series of videos.

Mar. 3rd, 2004 12:31 pm (UTC)
Actually, I'm a big fan of dead baby jokes. Faces of Death not so much. I'm likely to enjoy art/humor/etc -- things with a fictitious basis -- that involves killing, mutilation, gore, and even, in some cases, extreme sexual violence (cf Cronenburg, Troma, Maruo's paintings, etc). The difference is that in the case of a fiction, depending somewhat on context and presentation, I can basically supress my reflex for compassion. To so easily do so in regard to reality, when not dealing with abstractions, is pretty much sociopathic.
Mar. 3rd, 2004 01:30 pm (UTC)
see... that all makes perfect sense.

I was thinking of the "blow it up with a firecracker" set...even though I'm less than eloquent today.

Mar. 3rd, 2004 11:51 am (UTC)
did ya ever / would ya ever
read that lady's book about Jack the Ripper, and how she's found out his identity as a ... well, I won't spoil it, cause I think you may like it. hey, i was skeptical, she's a fiction writer and a pulpy one at that... but I was completely rapt once I began reading. your comments about sexuality and serial killer fandom in particular make me think you'd be interested.

Mar. 3rd, 2004 01:21 pm (UTC)
Re: did ya ever / would ya ever
I Actually started that one, despite really disliking Patricia Cornwell. Then my sister borrowed it and I never got it back. heh. I dunno about Jack the Ripper. I know so many people who've been really into him for a long time but I for some reason have never been much interested in the unsolved ones. Like the Zodiac killer. I read a book about him once, and then the interest sort of died. ::shrug::

I'm trying to think of the other writer... she does primarily serial killer /true crime but is SOOOO sensationalistic and splashy with it that it just feels disrespectful to how serious it all is.

Yeah, I gots my theories about that whole death/sex/power thing. I dislike the well accepted concept that only men are capable of being wrathful and horrendous, to the point of ignoring the possiblity that women who do horrible things are ever anything but the product of a poor environment instead of people fully responsible for their own deplorable behavior.

Mar. 15th, 2004 07:59 pm (UTC)
old comment but i still think about this stuff
i am opposite, i guess! i am mystified by the zodiac too. of course now, i have tons of gary ridgeway stuff in local media - i even considered buying that whole boxed set of something like 18 dvds for about $2100 of all his confessions. [patricia cornwell is so far the only buyer. lol] i watched everything they showed on tv with his victims confronting him, every guilty charge... it was intense.

just to play with the idea of "only men can be horrendous" - i've read lots of crap saying that school shootings are never perpetrated by females. is that too far a leap from murderers to make any interesting associations?
Mar. 18th, 2004 08:53 am (UTC)
Re: old comment but i still think about this stuff
herm... depends on the kind of school shooting.
At my high school there was a chicky who brought a gun to a game (happened a lot actually, even after the metal detectors, they'd just come over the fence that backedup to the woods) and shot at some girl who she thought was getting it on with her boy/man.

She didn't hit anyone and the crowd jumped her pretty quick, but well, it was a school game, she brought a gun....

I think it depends on the circumstances. In the case of school shootings, you have to take into account the developmental differences in females and males and their age. A full grown woman and a full grown man aren't really that far about developmentally. But a 16 year old boy and a 16 year old girl are *entirely* different creatures.

I've heard people tell me , in all seriousness, that if there were no men there would be no war, no hate, etc. These people were witches of the Dianic persuasion... but still. It's a concept that's out there.
I think underestimating The ability of women to commit terrible crimes against others is a dangerous and probably far too idealistic a mind set.
I know that we're a hell of a lot less likely to be violent, but to reduce that to "just won't" is taking it too far.
Mar. 9th, 2004 04:21 pm (UTC)
Here's a startling fact if you haven't heard of it: did you know that 73% of serial killers vote Republican? A serial killer, although a different animal initially from a "spree" killer like the DC sniper may commit spree-like killings towards the end when they get out of control and wants to kill everyday.

I wonder if Eileen Wournos talked about the Pacific Northwest as a breeding ground for serial killers.
Mar. 9th, 2004 08:47 pm (UTC)
actually, I hadn't heard that fact, but I don't think it's suprising either. John Wayne Gayce was a successful boy rapist and torturer because of the super conservative, cop buddy, pillar of the community he was on the surface, not because he was all that savvy of a killer.

And I agree about the spree killer note, the cycle starts speeding up, getting faster because the satisfaction just doesn't last as long, just like any addictive drug. I'd also say that some *start* as spree killers, like Richard Ramirez, killing for coke money.

Wisonsin is one of the most famous areas for serial killers. Its biggest stars being Gein (the grandfather of the movie madman) and Dahmer.

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )


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